[volunteergrid2-l] Foot-dragging

[Brad Rupp]

On 2/24/2012 11:42 AM, Shawn Willden wrote:
> So, if I'm understanding your concern, you're fearful that you might be
> held responsible if one of the other users of the VG2 grid were to store
> illegal materials in the grid and, therefore, on your computer?
>
> I don't think that's a realistic concern, but you have to make the
> decision for yourself.
>
> I think there may be one inaccuracy in your thinking which I can point
> out:  ISPs are not considered common carriers.  In fact they've fought
> hard to avoid that classification, because it brings regulation along
> with protection from responsibility.
>
> Since Comcast et al are not held responsible for, say, the kiddie porn
> that flows over their networks, I don't think you have to have worry.
>   Particularly since it is provable (in the legal sense and almost in
> the mathematical sense) that you can have no knowledge of the content
> others store on your machine, I can't see how any court could attempt to
> hold you responsible.  ISPs actually have the ability to see much of
> what they transport.  You don't.
>
> Further, there's a good argument to be made that what you store isn't
> even "information".  It is encrypted data and you don't have the key.
>   Assuming the data is not decryptable without the key, it can be argued
> that key + data == information, but key without data is simply noise.
>   Strengthening this argument is the fact that you don't even hold all
> of the parts needed to assemble the encrypted file.  Without the shares
> that have been distributed to other machines, you don't even have enough
> information to be able to reconstruct the encrypted file... which you
> couldn't decrypt anyway.

Shawn hit the nail on the head.  Even if kiddie porn is stored to the 
grid, what you have is not kiddie porn.  You have a chunk of something. 
  As Shawn mentions, it is simply noise.  Remember, I am not a lawyer...

>
> None of that would be a strong defense if the court could argue that you
> should have known that you were storing illicit information.  But the
> purpose of this grid isn't to skirt laws restricting kiddie porn, the
> purpose of this grid is provide highly-reliable off-site backups of
> normal data.  I can certainly assure you that none of the data I store
> in the grid is illegal.
>
> Perhaps one thing we could do is to state as a formal policy of the grid
> that it is not to be used for storing any data which the owner knows, or
> should know, is illegal in his or her jurisdiction.

I agree.  That is a good idea.

>
> Oh, and as for GMail... if you're concerned about e-mail snooping for
> this mailing list, the list archives are a bigger concern.  The
> government wouldn't even need a warrant:  They could just sign up for
> membership and have access to the full text of everything anyone has
> posted here.  In general, any expectations of secrecy on unencrypted
> e-mail are foolish, but our conversations here are effectively conducted
> in public.
>
> On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Ted Rolle Jr. <stercor at gmail.com
> <mailto:stercor at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     I've been dragging my feet implementing Tahoe-LAFS.
>     As one who lived through the McCarthy era, and the expanded powers
>     that the government has to view and track private citizens, I don't
>     want to be prosecuted by the government.  I don't have the resources
>     to be in this fight.
>     And I don't believe for one minute that it's directed toward te..or..ts.
>     GMail routinely reads mail for 'targeted advertising'.  I can think
>     of other reasons, too.
>
>     Where does this lead?  I don't know.
>     Perhaps someone here can put my concerns to rest.
>     The gov decides who is and is not a 'common carrier' --- i.e. not
>     responsible for the traffic the network carries.
>     And in today's climate, people are guilty until proven innocent.
>
>     Ted
>
>     --
>     GPG/PGP public key: B07F9AAE
>
>
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>
>
>
> --
> Shawn
>
>
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