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Weekly Meeting

There is a weekly videoconference, currently using Jitsi. The server details are available on IRC a few minutes before the meeting.

Who	Core developers or interested community members
What	Dev Topics Meeting
When	Tuesdays 16:00Z-18:00Z (in summer. one hour off in winter)
Where	Jitsi, IRC fallback
Why	Voice/video interaction complements IRC/mailing list
How	See Agenda below
IRC	join channel "#tahoe-lafs" on irc.libera.chat (port 6697 for TLS)

(Z "Zulu" time refers to UTC; check where you are, but the meeting is tied to civil time, not UTC, so when the various countries all switch to/from DST, the meeting's UTC time changes)

Old agendas are posted here for the historically curious. Recent meetings don't necessarily have as well-defined an agenda set in advance. Please feel free to suggest items for discussion via any communications channel.

We usually meet in https://meet.jit.si/AccurateFiltersManipulate (but open to other Jitsi hosts or different video+voice services).

Notes from 2024 Meetings

April 30, 2024

attendees: meejah, chris, florian

chris: working on PR for deterministic keys thing
chris: asking about formatting, etc
meejah: do what is close by, if you prefer rebasing/etc fine, but

it'll be "a merge commit to master" in the end (and many intermediate commits are fine from my perspective

chris: first determinstic-key PR will be just Web API
meejah: okay so there was .. files before? (there was already

mutable-files, we need this for mutable dirs too)

chris / meejah agree that the WUI is .. outdated .. and a JSON API

plus CLI is sufficient (i.e. no new WebUI for these keys)

flo: working on iOS build for private-storage-mobile (re-branded for Tahoe)
chris: do you have a phone to test on?
flo: no. working with Android currently still to update dependencies etc (Obelisk, ...)

have an M1 laptop

flo: trying to figure out what is next, as far as "reading from non-magic-folder"
Q: do we need / want a "tahoe magic-wormhole subprotocol" that can send capabilities places?
could "transmit aliases" to another machine with ^{(i.e. extend protocol to have a second message)}

April 9, 2024

attendees: meejah, hacklschorsch, ccx, chris, b3n

hacklschorsch: macbook, trying to ... do haskell stuff? (GHC 8.6 works?) so trying to get Obsidian / Obelisk working on\

mac (to be able to build "the mobile GUI"

(meejah provides quick overview of the Haskell Tahoe client stuff we have)

chris / cypher: released Rust library for deterministic RSA keys from BIP32-like words; working towards making one's ow\ n mutable RSA key; some future pairing possibly around the Python API etc.

b3n: working towards Trac removal; need the dump of database + content of folder; "just make a tarball of the trac user\

folder" (plus database dump)

flo: there's "trac-export.db.bz2" served from tahoe-lafs.org/~trac (which we should _probably_ delete)

b3n: there's "trac-admin auth-copy" which should work

meejah: magic-wormhole release, some haskell magic-wormhole; what about hmac stuff? A not-python version?

chris: yeah .. thinking of ways of facilitating different implementations; tahoe libraries?

ccx: ocamljs exists

flo: can we do a read-only browser client to tahoe-lafs?

-> preserves and syndicate -- #preserves channel on Libera

Nim, syndicate -- original impl was in.

Someone is working on a DBUS-like thing on top of PostmarketOS (Alpine with "stuff for phones"). Pub/sub.

ccx: when thinking of a "lightweight" phone client, something like 9p or something to "a node" (i.e. a real tahoe node)

e.g. do "everything except decryption" on "the node".

meejah: sounds interesting! like a "medium-level" API, something like "please assemble this ciphertext, and give it to \ me" so that the client doesn't reveal the "full capability", it stays on the phone.

(some discussion of Web browsers etc)

chris: browser extension, maybe? There's also "sub-source reliability" (??)

ccx: can use browser for some stuff (less-sensitive data, across more people)

meejah: just trying to contextualize a bunch of this stuff, and it's important to understand what is possible (and not \ possible) these days. Agoric has done some thinking around this.

ccx: also sandstorm.io

(meejah aside: sandstorm doesn't (didn't) have accounts, really, just email address .. wonder if they still have that?)

ccx: still grieving death of CloudABI -- extension of capsicum to make a unix-link system on top of FreeBSD.

April 2, 2024

attendees: shapr, b3n, cypher, meejah, (hacklschorsch, Ccx)

shapr: more work on haskell tahoe client, maintainer access to hackage, upgrade ghc version, fixing "partial suppor for byte-ranges" -> "full support for byte ranges"

cypher: published the rust key-generation library; looking at convert tahoe's hashutils into rust; https://github.com/crwood/deterministic-keygen

b3n: gitea testing and proof-of-concept, questions about CI, etc

meejah: released magic-folder, more conflict-resolution stuff, GUI experiments,

hacklschorsch: will look into CI minutes from GitLab? dot com; will look into mobile-app upgrade issues

Q: is the tahoe-lafs "hmac" function actually custom? 0x36, 0x5c (we remember it's in some paper, or something)

Q: what happens if gitlab.com minutes run out? can we take advantage of these runners from e.g. self-hosted Gitea?

Q: has anyone tried sr.ht? (not really; interact with https://git.sr.ht/~meejah/pear-on if you want to try

March 1st, 2024

attendees: meejah, cypher, shapr

Tahoe-LAFS website looks dead
- move off trac, whatever the cost, or give up and die
Tahoe-LAFS needs a killer app
- safesext?
Tahoe-LAFS python codebase is crusty enough for a pastry factory
- rewrite it in rust?
Maybe spritely is the next incarnation of the big ideas behind Tahoe-LAFS?
- https://spritely.institute/ give up on Tahoe-LAFS and write guile instead?

in the next episode, we discuss trac extraction, spritely goblins, and agoric

February 20, 2024

attendees: meejah, cypher, hacklschorch

on PyPI "zero-knowledge-access-pass-authorizer" has only jean-paul as maintainer
hacklschorsch, chris don't have access to the repo etc
hacklschorsch working on other stuff / not tahoe-lafs
(e-tonic?)

what does flo want to work on? (maybe in two weeks)
- mobile stuff
- research browser stuff
"build haskell stuff into webassembly"..?

mobile-app
- talk to plain tahoe servers
- iOS ("maybe easy if lucky, maybe not")
- "uploading"

hacklschorsch thinks we already don't use ZKAPs at all in the mobile thing (i.e. it speaks just GBS to "normal" tahoe servers)

hacklschorsch's plan: in a couple weeks, would like to try to tackle the "mobile app" things (iOS + "no ZKAPs")

cypher: gridsync effectively maintenance mode for now? (no clarity on what to do)

cypher: do recovery-phrases feature
- get the rust library going (CI, wheels, ..)
- tahoe side: how to provide own RSA key to "dircap" WUI (you can do this for "regular mutable file" but not for directories)
- rust etc

meejah: would be good for the BIP39-words thing to be part of the WUI (alongside the "here's a private key" API)

h: please update #tahoe-lafs topic about meeting 18:00UTC

February 13, 2024

attendees: meejah, cypher

Updates on what we've been up to.

cypher looked at BIP32 Rust library; wants to be on crates, PyPI, python bindings
meejah looked at contributed Py2 PR, magic-folder bug (via IRC), magic-folder conflict resolution and some magic-wormhole interface issues (delegated vs. deferred wormhole features)

Some discussion of desired behavior from magic-folder on conflicts.

protocol should be general (software can make specific choices). When possible.
on new incoming data, prefer to update
- on existing conflict, update the marker-file with the new content
- if new conflict, download add to content marker (even if file is 'already' conflicted with different participant)

Cypher will file a bug identifying issues with the "read-only" option for joining folders (docs missing, behavior seems wrong: it's not actually optional)

February 6, 2024

attendees: meejah, cypher

Open-ended discussion / brainstorming about:

aspects of magic-folder conflict resolution (for >2 party conflicts).
very broad outline of work required to be able to specify keys for mutable directories
general next steps for both of the above:
- chris will be looking into Rust library + Python bindings for BIP39 -> key transforms
- meejah working through test-cases for magic-folder conflict resolution
- medium-term: Gridsync / UX for above

January 30, 2024

attendees: meejah, ccx, hackleschorsh, chris

discussed current and future work (i.e. what people are working on now and what they want to work on in future)
meejah: familiarizing with magic-wormhole and magic-folders so a new release can be produced; reviews and bug-fixes related to 1.19.0 release bugs (cbor2, ...)
chris: will likely be looking at "recovery phrases" soon (so one can specify the private-key for a mutable using BIP39 style words)
ccx: interested in share-placement, especially related to "repair"
hackleschorsch: interested in packaging

some (re-)discussion of self-hosting / moving from tahoe-lafs.org Trac instance to something else (e.g. sourcehut, forgejo, gitea, gitlab, ...)
clarity around timing of this meeting (including a calendar file somewhere, e.g. on this wiki). (we actually started at 1800UTC today, which works for these attendees)

Historical Content

Agenda for next meeting (30-Aug-2016)

tor/i2p client support landed! #2788, #517
#2816 (disable listener): are folks comfortable with the syntax?
#1010 (anonymous mode): discuss the proposed semantics
discuss what other anonymity code needs to land before release: #1942, #2384, #2490 (create-node/create-client CLI args), #2773 (create-node --port/--location/--hostname)
#2815 (document manual config of .onion server)
at what point can we close #517?
multi-introducer: can we just use tahoe.cfg introducer.petname1.furl= lines?
#68 (introless): can we just omit introducer.furl= ?
check in with Daira on status of cloud-backend branch
Science Hour: agoric-mode tahoe grid: minimum BTC/ETH txn fees limits number of payment relationships: discuss

Other Stuff

We switch chat tools every few months, in an attempt to overcome performance problems. Tools we've used:

Most require a browser extension to enable screensharing.

We frequently keep notes on an etherpad, the URL for which is posted at the start of the meeting. Patrick McDonald? turns these notes into the Tahoe Weekly News.

Other resources that usually get referenced during the course of the meeting:

Proposed Future Topics

#1382 #1382 #1382 and #1382; It is almost done. Is it done? Maybe we need one more round of code review‽ Can we merge it?
#2125 (amiller wants to work on it)
do code-review on the tickets that already have patches written for them! Milestone 1.11.0
POSSIBLE AGENDA ITEM: Tahoe-LAFS over I2P, Tor, and/or cjdns by Twisted Endpoints (pycryptopp #203) because https://pypi.python.org/pypi/txi2p exists now!
POSSIBLE AGENDA ITEM: let's do ChaCha20⊕AES (pycryptopp #84 and Tahoe-LAFS #1164).
Noether status report by Daira ("TESLA COILS AND CORPSES")
Rainhill design review which Daira will distribute; call for outside crypto expert reviewers ("TESLA COILS AND CORPSES")
Proof-of-Retrievability In The Presence Adaptive Adversaries by Zooko ("TESLA COILS AND CORPSES")
Awesome Generalized Authenticated Data Structures, Part 2 by Andrew ("TESLA COILS AND CORPSES")
Awesome Generalized Cryptocurrencies, Part 2 by Brian ("TESLA COILS AND CORPSES")

Notes / Archives

2014-03-24

foolscap, I2P, IPv6, Tor, Twisted endpoints, HTTP transport, HTTP/2

Context Navigation

Weekly Meeting

Notes from 2024 Meetings

April 30, 2024

April 9, 2024

April 2, 2024

March 1st, 2024

February 20, 2024

February 13, 2024

February 6, 2024

January 30, 2024

Historical Content

Agenda for next meeting (30-Aug-2016)

Other Stuff

Proposed Future Topics

Notes / Archives

2014-03-24

2014-03-20

2014-03-06

2014-12-13

2014-12-12

2014-02-06

2013-11-14

2013-10-23

2013-10-02

2013-09-11

2013-08-28

2013-08-21

2013-08-07

2013-07-31

2013-07-16

2013-07-09

2013-07-04

2013-06-20

2013-05-30

2013-05-02

2013-04-25

2013-04-18

2012-04-11

2012-03-14

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2013-02-28

2012-02-21

2012-02-14

2012-01-31

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2012-01-10

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2012-11-22

2012-11-15

2012-11-08

2012-11-01

2012-10-23

2012-10-16

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